Re: [rda-datafabric-ig] draft version white paper form DFIG

08 Dec 2014
Groups audience: 

Yes, the paper is advancing the topic by providing some framework vision.
The Use Case section needs to be filled in by appropriate groups and the
last section:
Planning (12 months – from P5 to P7) might add some of the more recent
information about trusted repositories
which seems like another area that DF might help advance after the BoF at
P5.
Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D.
***@***.***
http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GaryBergCross
SOCoP Executive Secretary
Independent Consultant
Potomac, MD
240-426-0770

  • Michael Lautenschlager's picture

    Author: Michael Lautens...

    Date: 15 Dec, 2014

    Dear Peter and Rob,
    thank you drafting the data fabric white paper. It provides an almost complete of the state of discussion and cooperations within RDA. As turned out in the Amsterdam discussions at the last RDA plenary DFIG seems to be an integration of RDA activities.
    I added a few comments to the text and an additional use case related to climate research (see attachment). My comments are targeted to practical applications focused on use cases and already existing operational data infrastructures. For me it is not clear from the white paper that DFIG goes beyond the conceptual level. I suggest that DFIG should try to develop possible improvements or synergies even for already existing and operational data infrastructures.
    Best regards, Michael
    ---------------
    Dr. Michael Lautenschlager
    Abteilungsleiter Datenmanagement
    World Data Center for Climate (WDCC)
    Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum GmbH (DKRZ)
    Bundesstraße 45a * D-20146 Hamburg * Germany
    Phone: +49 40 460094-118
    Email: ***@***.***
    URL: www.dkrz.de
    Geschäftsführer: Prof. Dr. Thomas Ludwig
    Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg
    Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 39784

  • Peter Wittenburg's picture

    Author: Peter Wittenburg

    Date: 15 Dec, 2014

    Thanks Michael.
    Will look at this later this week.
    Best
    Peter
    - Show quoted text -From: lautenschlager=***@***.***-groups.org [mailto:***@***.***-groups.org] On Behalf Of mlautenschlager
    Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 9:37 AM
    To: Gary; Peter Wittenburg; Rob Pennington; Data Fabric IG
    Subject: Re: [rda-datafabric-ig] [rda-datafabric-ig] draft version white paper form DFIG
    Dear Peter and Rob,
    thank you drafting the data fabric white paper. It provides an almost complete of the state of discussion and cooperations within RDA. As turned out in the Amsterdam discussions at the last RDA plenary DFIG seems to be an integration of RDA activities.
    I added a few comments to the text and an additional use case related to climate research (see attachment). My comments are targeted to practical applications focused on use cases and already existing operational data infrastructures. For me it is not clear from the white paper that DFIG goes beyond the conceptual level. I suggest that DFIG should try to develop possible improvements or synergies even for already existing and operational data infrastructures.
    Best regards, Michael

  • Larry Lannom's picture

    Author: Larry Lannom

    Date: 15 Dec, 2014

    Dear Michael,
    One possible approach is that DFIG defines a conceptual framework and individual working groups get spun out to apply that framework to specific domains and problem areas.
    Best,
    Larry

  • Michael Lautenschlager's picture

    Author: Michael Lautens...

    Date: 15 Dec, 2014

    Dear Larry,
    thank you for your response. Your suggestion sounds reasonable and could be a way to move DFIG concepts towards practical applications. What I would like to see is that DFIG is not only working on conceptual frameworks but turn or at least is going to turn these concepts into solutions in real data infrastructures. This loop to practical applications is important at least for me and I hope that it will be possible to strengthen the DFIG white paper in this respect.
    Best regards, Michael

  • Herman Stehouwer's picture

    Author: Herman Stehouwer

    Date: 17 Dec, 2014

    Dear Michael,
    This (practical applicability) is certainly a strong wish of many of us.
    We have for instance already been looking at several possible solutions
    for registries that could enable sewing such a fabric together.
    Just to say that I at least share the hope that we can be explicit
    enough to make it work as it where.
    But to be honest I think we are now all just strongly agreeing with each
    other.
    Cheers,
    Herman

  • Rainer Stotzka's picture

    Author: Rainer Stotzka

    Date: 18 Dec, 2014

    Dear Michael, All,
    Yes, you raise an important point.
    For some of us it is definitely an important goal to adopt DFIG concepts
    into practical implementations of systems supporting various scientific
    workflows. Of course each scientific workflow, e.g. data management and
    analysis of high-throughput microscopes, climate data collection, etc.
    must be adapted for its¹ specific needs, but may also use the DFIG
    principles
    of their interaction.
    It is very important that the discussions about DFIG interfaces and
    protocols
    are closely accompanied by the developers (adopters) of the open
    frameworks and
    use cases.
    Can we extend the wiki to collect also the open frameworks or do we use
    for this the category "Components / Services²?
    https://rd-alliance.org/group/data-fabric-ig/wiki/data-fabric-ig-components
    services.html
    Kind regards,
    RAiner
    KIT >>>>>> Dr. Rainer Stotzka <<<<<<<<<< KIT
    Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT)
    Institute for Data Processing and Electronics
    Hermann-von-Helmholtz-Platz 1
    76344 Eggenstein-Leopoldshafen
    Germany
    fon: +49 721 608 2 4738
    fax: +49 721 608 2 3560
    email: ***@***.***
    http://ipelsdf1.lsdf.kit.edu

  • Peter Wittenburg's picture

    Author: Peter Wittenburg

    Date: 18 Dec, 2014

    Agree Larry.
    But as indicated DFIG should stick to the analysis and specification level.
    PS: This is a general point which is relevant for all RDA activities.
    We had the discussion with iRODs and also DTR. PP group is about policies in general independent of the software being used to implement them. etc.
    Peter

  • Raphael Ritz's picture

    Author: Raphael Ritz

    Date: 18 Dec, 2014

    On 12/18/14 9:12 AM, Peter Wittenburg wrote:
    > Agree Larry.
    > But as indicated DFIG should stick to the analysis and specification level.
    > PS: This is a general point which is relevant for all RDA activities.
    For DFIG I can see the point but for RDA in general
    I consider the motto "rough consensus and running code"
    to go beyond mere specification.
    YMMV,
    Raphael
    >
    > We had the discussion with iRODs and also DTR. PP group is about policies in general independent of the software being used to implement them. etc.
    >
    > Peter
    >
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: Larry Lannom [mailto:***@***.***]
    >> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 2:47 PM
    >> To: mlautenschlager
    >> Cc: Gary; Peter Wittenburg; Rob Pennington; Data Fabric IG
    >> Subject: Re: [rda-datafabric-ig] [rda-datafabric-ig] draft version white paper
    >> form DFIG
    >>
    >> Dear Michael,
    >>
    >> One possible approach is that DFIG defines a conceptual framework and
    >> individual working groups get spun out to apply that framework to specific
    >> domains and problem areas.
    >>
    >> Best,
    >>
    >> Larry
    >>
    >> On Dec 15, 2014, at 3:37 AM, mlautenschlager <***@***.***>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Dear Peter and Rob,
    >>> thank you drafting the data fabric white paper. It provides an almost
    >> complete of the state of discussion and cooperations within RDA. As turned
    >> out in the Amsterdam discussions at the last RDA plenary DFIG seems to be
    >> an integration of RDA activities.
    >>> I added a few comments to the text and an additional use case related to
    >> climate research (see attachment). My comments are targeted to practical
    >> applications focused on use cases and already existing operational data
    >> infrastructures. For me it is not clear from the white paper that DFIG goes
    >> beyond the conceptual level. I suggest that DFIG should try to develop
    >> possible improvements or synergies even for already existing and
    >> operational data infrastructures.
    >>> Best regards, Michael
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> ---------------
    >>> Dr. Michael Lautenschlager
    >>> Abteilungsleiter Datenmanagement
    >>> World Data Center for Climate (WDCC)
    >>>
    >>> Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum GmbH (DKRZ) Bundesstraße 45a * D-20146
    >>> Hamburg * Germany
    >>>
    >>> Phone: +49 40 460094-118
    >>> Email: ***@***.***
    >>> URL: www.dkrz.de
    >>>
    >>> Geschäftsführer: Prof. Dr. Thomas Ludwig Sitz der Gesellschaft:
    >>> Hamburg Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 39784
    >>>
    >>> Am 08.12.2014 um 17:13 schrieb Gary <***@***.***>:
    >>>
    >>>> Yes, the paper is advancing the topic by providing some framework vision.
    >>>>
    >>>> The Use Case section needs to be filled in by appropriate groups and the
    >> last section:
    >>>> Planning (12 months - from P5 to P7) might add some of the more
    >>>> recent information about trusted repositories which seems like another
    >> area that DF might help advance a fter the BoF at P5.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Gary Berg-Cross, Ph.D.
    >>>> ***@***.***
    >>>> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GaryBergCross
    >>>> SOCoP Execu tive Secretary
    >>>> Independent Consultant
    >>>> Potomac, MD
    >>>> 240-426-0770
    >>>>
    >>>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 5:56 AM, Alan Blatecky <***@***.***>
    >> wrote:
    >>>> Peter, Rob,
    >>>>
    >>>> This is an excellent white paper. You (and he editing team) have done a
    >> great job in not only outlining the DFIG space, but also how it fits into RDA.
    >> What I especially like is that the white paper does a really good job of
    >> capturing what we mean by "data fabric" and how components and pieces fit
    >> together to support the larger research and scientific endeavor.
    >>>> Again, great job.
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks
    >>>>
    >>>> Alan Blatecky
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Dec 4, 2014, at 10:57 AM, Peter Wittenburg
    >> <***@***.***> wrote:
    >>>>> Dear all,
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Here is a first draft version of the white paper which we want to circulate
    >> outside of the editing team. All side information you can find in the DFIG
    >> group wiki:
    >>>>> https://rd-alliance.org/groups/data-fabric-ig/wiki/data-fabric-ig-do
    >>>>> cuments.html#comment-2225
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Please comment before Christmas in this thread so that we can work on
    >> a first real version 1.X during the Christmas/Newyears days.
    >>>>> Best
    >>>>> Rob & Peter
    >>>>>
    >>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >> -----------------------
    >>>>> Peter Wittenburg Tel: +49 2821 49180
    >> ***@***.***
    >>>>> RDA Founding Member
    >>>>> EUDAT Scientific Coordinator
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Senior Advisor Data Systems
    >>>>> Computer Center Garching
    >>>>> Boltzmannstraße 2
    >>>>> 85748 Garching
    >>>>> Germany
    >>>>> http://www.rzg.mpg.de/
    >>>>> http://www.mpi.nl/people/wittenburg-peter
    >>>>>
    >>>>> former affiliation:
    >>>>> Max Planck Institute for Psycholinguistics Wundtlaan 1
    >>>>> 6525 XD Nijmegen
    >>>>> The Netherlands
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> --
    >>>>> Full post:
    >>>>> https://www.rd-alliance.org/group/data-fabric-ig/post/draft-version-
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    >>>>> https://www.rd-alliance.org/mailinglist
    >>>>> Stop emails for this post:
    >>>>> https://www.rd-alliance.org/mailinglist/unsubscribe/46723
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Full post:
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    >>>> https://www.rd-alliance.org/mailinglist
    >>>> Stop emails for this post:
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    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Full post:
    >>>> https://www.rd-alliance.org/group/data-fabric-ig/post/re-rda-datafabr
    >>>> ic-ig-draft-version-white-paper-form-dfig.html
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    >
    On 12/18/14 9:12 AM, Peter Wittenburg wrote:
    > Agree Larry.
    > But as indicated DFIG should stick to the analysis and specification level.
    > PS: This is a general point which is relevant for all RDA activities.
    For DFIG I can see the point but for RDA in general
    I consider the motto "rough consensus and running code"
    to go beyond mere specification.
    YMMV,
    Raphael

  • Peter Wittenburg's picture

    Author: Peter Wittenburg

    Date: 18 Dec, 2014

    Also agree Michael.
    Larry's approach may work, but still RDA needs to stay at the level of specifications or as in the case of PIT implementing a generic API component (which is also an option). It would be up to the community and their specific software systems how they would turn things into practice.
    Let me use this email for something I briefly touched in the comments to your comments.
    At the RDA Germany meeting we realized that many of the German experts want to contribute to the DFIG discussions and it was obvious that not everyone can come to the plenaries (also: if everyone would come to the plenaries we would have sessions with perhaps 100 people or so where you can't achieve progress). So we need to start with a procedure where we have regional meetings in addition to plenary/global meetings. The big question is then how we can take care of coherence. I guess that we should not start a principal discussion now about this, but just try it out. So we (including you) should organize a DFIG meeting in Germany and invite all interested persons to discuss issues in detail. This would in particular include to listen to presentations from existing infrastructures where they can explain how they think would fit into the DFIG landscape.
    Best
    Peter

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