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[FAIR4RS][subgroup3] Schedule call for subgroup3 mid/end of January

  • Creator
    Discussion
  • #102432

    Morane Gruenpeter
    Participant

    Dear subgroup3 participants,
    Apologies for cross-posting this message on both the subgroup mailing list
    and the full FAIR4RS working group list, I do want to open the subgroup3
    work to the entire WG and get ideas from everyone here.
    My last message to you dates to September 4th.
    Since then, the activity on our gitter channel[1] and on the document[2]
    were low and we haven’t decided yet how to produce a standalone output from
    the collection of quotes and examples we captured.
    To complete the subgroup’s work, I invite you to a call that will be
    scheduled using the following doodle poll:
    https://doodle.com/poll/qe7g675fpg57stvr?utm_source=poll&utm_medium=link
    Please answer the poll rapidly so we can schedule a meeting and discuss the
    interesting corner cases that we listed in the document. A quick preview-
    would you consider Scala (the programming language) research software?
    Feel free to answer the doodle poll[3], chat in gitter[1] and comment/write
    in the document[2] even if you haven’t subscribed to subgroup3, and please
    add yourself to the contributors list when doing so.
    Wishing you all a healthy and calm year!
    See you (virtually) soon,
    [1] https://gitter.im/FAIR4RS/subgroup3-RS-definition
    [2] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PvYiYJxd7-vrmTusTvS8fYp47Wu6v-c_XMu-
    LjIBKio/edit?usp=sharing
    [3]https://doodle.com/poll/qe7g675fpg57stvr?utm_source=poll&utm_medium=link

    Morane Ottilia GRUENPETER
    Software engineer and metadata specialist for
    Software Heritage http://www.softwareheritage.org
    @INRIA Paris
    office phone: 01 80 49 44 49
    personal website: http://moranegg.github.io/

  • Author
    Replies
  • #129585

    Hi Morane, all,
    Just a comment about:
    Hi Morane, all,
    Just a comment about:
    > would you consider Scala (the programming language) research software?
    It is like to say: would you consider English (the natural language) a novel?
    Have a nice day 🙂
    S.

  • #129584

    Hello Silvio and all, First let me thank you for your response and thank you to all for the doodle resposnes. I will close the doodle tonight (20.00 UTC) and confirm the time of meeting. Concerning your intriguing comment on my question:
    >> would you consider Scala (the programming language) research software?
    > It is like to say: would you consider English (the natural language) a novel? Would you consider a dictionary a book? First, let me share a few elements on Scala.
    1. The Scala programming language started as a research project at EPFL by Martin Odersky[1][2]. “The design of Scala started in 2001 at the École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL) (in Lausanne, Switzerland) by Martin Odersky. It followed on from work on Funnel, a programming language combining ideas from functional programming and Petri nets. Odersky formerly worked on Generic Java, and javac, Sun’s Java compiler.” (Wikipedia, retrieved 13.1.2021) [3]
    2. Scala is an Open Source project, developed on GitHub[4].
    It is now at version *2.12.13*, but back in 2004 the first visible release is *v1.0.0-b5* pointing to commit hash: d53c0dadb92173a6caeb6a1f31dafa92dcff6833 dated to *19 January 2004.* This version is also archived on Software Heritage, which you can reference with a SWHID Persistent Identifier[5]
    So, was it research software (RS) back in ~2001-2004 when “only” a research team developed it (can’t confirm yet if only the research team was contributing at that time)?
    If it was RS but now as a standard language it is not RS anymore, should we consider the releases from 2004 as software that should be FAIR?
    I don’t have an answer, but this is an interesting discussion to have when we want to establish scope for the FAIR principles for RS. I’m moving the answers above to our gitter chat and to the document and invite people who want to participate to go directly there to add their take on the subject.
    [1] https://lampwww.epfl.ch/~odersky/talks/popl06.pdf
    [2] https://www.scala-lang.org/docu/files/ScalaOverview.pdf
    [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scala_(programming_language)
    [4] https://github.com/scala/scala
    [5] https://archive.softwareheritage.org/swh:1:dir:28d1ccf090e51802807c739e9
    [6] https://github.com/scala/scala/releases/tag/v1.0.0-b5 Best, Morane Gruenpeter

  • #129583

    Hi Morane,
    Very briefly here – and then maybe we can mode the discussion on the document online: the point I wanted to raise is on the distinction between the concepts “language” and “artefact produced using such a language”. To me this distinction is crucial. In my mind – maybe wrongly – I always thought that a “research software” is an artefact written in a particular programming language, not a programming language per se.
    Also, I would say that Scala is not the only open-source programming language available out there. What about Python, for instance? Should it be considered a “research software” as well, at least in a particular time window?
    Thus, the real point that we need to clarify first is whether the distinction between programming language and research software is in place or not. To me, they refer to two distinct and non-overlapping concepts, but this is my personal opinion.
    About:
    I have on purpose avoided to use the word “book” in my previous example, due to the possible ambiguities it can generate – which is the core topic addressed by the IFLA’s FRBR standard. What do you mean with the term “book”? 😉
    Have a nice day 🙂
    S.
    —————————————————————————-
    Silvio Peroni, Ph.D.
    Assistant Professor
    Department of Classical Philology and Italian Studies
    University of Bologna, Bologna (Italy)
    Director, OpenCitations – http://opencitations.net
    E-mail:
    ***@***.***
    ***@***.***
    Web:
    https://essepuntato.it
    https://www.unibo.it/sitoweb/silvio.peroni/en
    Twitter:
    @essepuntato

  • #129582

    Dear all,
    After reviewing the 23 answers to the poll, I decided to conduct the
    discussion on both occasions (with different participants).
    This will give the opportunity to people from different places on the
    planet to participate.
    1. FAIR4RS subgroup3- Research Software Definition (1st meeting)
    Tuesday January 19th at 15:00 UTC
    Join in:
    https://us02web.zoom.us/j/74856277238?pwd=a3dWQVo3QS9mTytxc3RKaU1EbmU2dz09
    ID de réunion : 748 5627 7238
    Password: subgroup3
    2. FAIR4RS subgroup3- Research Software Definition (2nd meeting)
    Thursday January 21th 2021 at 10:00 UTC
    Join in:
    https://us02web.zoom.us/j/84508877412?pwd=dGV1bWwydXQ0MUc1SS9pNE9ENVpQUT09
    ID de réunion : 845 0887 7412
    Code secret : subgroup3
    Both sessions will be recorded, if you do not want to appear on the
    recording, please turn off your camera.
    Note that the chat will be saved as well.
    Here is the link to agenda and notes for both calls (still WIP):
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1acuX_qfSaDAvqwtNkVxDRC0e6rbCgym17Url
    Very excited to see you all next week.
    Best,

    Morane Ottilia GRUENPETER
    Software engineer and metadata specialist
    Software Heritage http://www.softwareheritage.org
    @INRIA Paris
    personal website: http://moranegg.github.io/
    On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 11:22 AM Silvio Peroni
    wrote:

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